[Music] [Applause] hi everyone and welcome to Therawin Tales your One-Stop shop for exploring the beauty of culture and therapy we have weave together expert advises and heartwarming stories for you so today we have with us Amanda who is a Vietnamese therapist hi Amanda how are you doing today hi I'm good how about yourself I'm good uh thank you so much for joining us yes yes it's a pleasure thank you the same here okay so Amanda uh we'll start with a bit introduction about yourself and what inspired you to pursue a career in Psychology and mental health yes so I'm a vames American I was born in Fremont California and I still live in the Bay Area as a therapist um I started my journey about 12 years ago working with kids with autism and then expanding my knowledge within mental health I started becoming Behavior specialist for adolescence up to ages 21 working with developmentally delayed um adolescence and then with co-occurring diagnosis of mental health and then I became a mental health clinician H that's an interesting Journey uh so Amanda when uh did you come to USA or were you born here so I was born here um my parents my mother is from Southern Vietnam Saigon and my dad's from North Hanoi and what really started for me was actually I visited Vietnam when I was around in 2005 um I visited my mom's home country and it was very poor I had families living in the shack um didn't have much you know Technologies or goods and it made me like change my perspective on how I saw life so when I came back I started volunteering in homeless shelters um even retirement homes and just researching more about how to get back to the community so I think that's where my idea of helping others stemed from um and then I started taking a class in Psychology around high school and it the subject was so interesting just to know how the brain works and how people um Can engage in um behaviors and then as I started to excel in my college I started having a passion for Clinical Psychology which is more of the mental health um disorders right right so um I'm Amanda since you have seen Vietnam quite well you know and how the culture is there so what changes do you see in perception of people about mental health from Vietnam to us well I've heard a lot of stories um especially from my clients who actually immigrated from Vietnam I do work with mostly Vietnamese population um and also I do have American population but most of my clients that I Ser that are Vietnamese are immigrated from Vietnam they shared with me that it was really difficult to access resources especially if their children were in school and they were having behavioral alpers um or they were deely delayed in academics there was no resources or support so a lot of them found out about America having resources and some of them did get sponsored to come to immigrate over here just to get the support needed I've also noticed that there could be a trend of most of my clients are enemies are non-speaking as in they do not talk um and I'm wondering too if it was based on um parenting skills or how you know parental rules were uh implemented when a child would talk back or a child would cry causing the child to not be able to speak or want to speak so um Amanda can you delve into this phenomena more so like what is the real cause of uh why it happens to a child you know it's I'm still trying to research it but it's really interesting because I'm noticing more of not even children but adults adults who couldn't even get um Mental Health Services for a long time and I think what really change and it still is evolving is awareness of mental health within the United States you know there's more um there's more access to resources especially doctors you know when when you go to a doctor because you have a problem right you always ask what's wrong with my child or what's wrong with you know me and then doctors would they have more access to get referrals like okay well this sounds like you need a referral for a behavioral counselor or a psychiatrist so I think now that we have more access to these uh resources it really helps to support the community but it did take a long time um yes H right uh so what is the unique approach that you use for um you know kids like who are non-speaking or minimal verbal clients yeah so I had to be really creative and I really think my experience working as a Aba therapist which is working with children with autism um is meeting clients at their level of Developmental so let's say if you have an adult that comes in that's 18 you have to observe their interactions and you know what what do they um lean towards like interest and also how are they you know are are they attached to their parents right because a lot of children they tend to like be latched on to their parents so then you kind of treat them as a child and you use a soft voice you focus on making it the place a safe place for them and then start to dive into communication with sometimes pictures pictures or even gestures a lot of it like I will start with a simple clap um maybe like a thumbs up it really depends on you know their level of understanding if it's a picture it's a simple like uh let's say smiley face right can you show me how to uh happy and then if they're unable to reply then I would kind of use two pictures and see okay show me happy and just to see what cognitive level they're at because because they can't talk doesn't mean that they don't understand right they could be very intelligent but can't communicate right definitely um so Amanda since you have worked with so many kids um who are struggling with this what is a typical day of such client looks like how do they navigate through their day-to-day life St oh you know every day is very different especially every week um it really depends especially with my experience with development delayed um clients who either have autism or intellectual disabilities or down syndrome or copy um it really depends on you know if they're not feeling well internally like medically they're not doing well like if their teeth hurts right if they can't communicate their teeth hurts then they would have outbursts and more irritable moons and you can't tell that's why it's really good to um have a relationship with whoever is lives with them or whoever provides care for them because how are we going to understand how to support someone if you don't really know if the client cannot tell you themsel right and I think the hardest part is with cognitive low cognitive levels for deing delayed is that they cannot tell you how they feel right okay so Amanda send it's already difficult for these clients to trust people right and it's it's very difficult to build that trust and mostly it's some of one or two person in their family that they can share these thoughts to so do you think there is um so how do you make that trust with those clients that they can also share what's uh what's struggling with them with you yeah you mentioned trust and what does trust mean when it comes to these families it's really the stigma the stigma of mental health and it goes back to culture right so imagine you go back to Vietnam and a child um there's a child who's very aggressive right there's stories that I've heard where the parents keep the child locked in cages or keep them sheltered from the outside world you know and it's it comes with shame right parents have shame and guilt for having a child raising a child this way or feeling like it's their fault right like what did the parents go wrong and that's the same with my clients that I have here that are cultured and also American is I feel bad that my child is struggling or having these challenges right so you have to meet get to meet them and understand them and hear them out I think a lot of times is you know you hear about mental health you hear about in the media being very aggressive or homicidal or suicidal but that's not all the cases and it doesn't really help shape what challenges people who have mental health really deal with it could be something like you know I act I I get aggressive because I can't communicate that doesn't mean that they're a danger to the world they could be a danger you know to themselves or to the people around them but they yet have to imagine them what are the clients thinking in their mind like why can't you understand me why can't you hear me out so just as long as you keep providing that reassurance is really good and re reinforcing also the familyes like hey you're doing a good job like I know you're trying the best like my favorite tip really is when I'm working with families is don't say no no is a huge trigger word when you say no you're telling the client or the um yeah the client that they can't do it or that's wrong but really it's not wrong and there are other ways to find the solution right right I think you mentioned a great thing with not saying no to them since it's kind of invalidate their feelings you know at one go that whatever they're feeling it's not it's not it's not true it's not validated right so Amanda since so like what are some of the stigmas that you have heard from parents of these clients where is it coming from you know yeah and you know what's funny is me becoming a therapist was also not very looked great upon right and it's I I had to have the experience of culture stigma myself becoming a therapist knowing that it doesn't help um you don't make money right people who want to hurt want to Suicide or will be homicidal they will to do it but for me it's like no I believe that once you connect with the client and you really understand them and you provide support you can really impact their lives and that's the same thing like I don't think about you know too much of okay how are they different or why are they not getting support it's more of they need someone just to listen to them and I think the other problem is with medication right a lot of the families they're fearful of giving there child or you know their their uh conserva uh medications because they feel like it'll alter their brain or cause like long-term damage effects and it's and I I understand and I try not to bring up you know my concerns I say hey this is your this is your choice you can always try it out but always check in with your psychiatrist check in with your doctor right I am not a doctor I cannot give you any suggestions on medication but I would tell them like let's try this together let's try this new technique Let's uh set this new goal and really focus on helping the families advocate for themsel I think which is another huge problem in mental health is a lot of families even clients are struggling to Advocate because they're so fearful right yeah definitely I think that's a really great thing for a therapist to do so that they stand with these parents and make them feel that they're not alone at this no and another suggestion is even if let's say a client wants a certain thing done right or doesn't agree with you you have to validate it very important so like has it ever happened with you that you know you suggested something maybe the client or their parents aren comfortable with doing that maybe because of the stigma mean because of some fear that they would and how did you how do a person to it yes that's resistance happens very commonly when you're providing therapy and support um and the resistant comes from even their own parents or care providers own trauma right their own fears of like oh it's not going to work or I've tried this before and I got hurt right as a consequence but like I said just being there providing that space even for myself if I Implement a new intervention I would call a check in with them within a few days I don't just wait for the next session the next week I think it's very important to have a very collaborative approach working with especially intense clients who need more support um so Amanda how can you like the environment the society can uh practice certain things to make sure that it's encouraging to these clients you know that's really hard to say right especially if you're come IM migrating from Vietnam right where economically it's not the um country is not doing well over there right they're real country but it seems that when you come to America there's more nutrients right there's vitamins you know a lot of most of my clients do take vitamins and maybe vitamins do help I'm not sure I'm not a doctor or nutritionist right but there could be a belief that home remedies uh are helpful too right right so do you know any of such hope remedies or uh anything that could be of help no I'm not sure but I just know that um I have families like try a variety like it could be even from like drinking green juice right or um having a certain in you know beverage um it could also be like some clients be on strict diets but like I said I'm not a nutritionist um I'm just sharing you know what I think families believe in right especially if families don't believe in medication um they rather explore natural remedies for things they can access at the grocery store it's true so as a therapist what um what do you think of these remedes do you think they do work or do you think we should stick particularly to medications and normal therapy you know it's really hard to tell because I really believe therapy works the most and I believe once you collaborate with the care providers and the school whoever's in the support system and you're all on board it's the the team approach works really well medication yes it could hypothetically work once again like I'm not a doctor but I've seen um I've seen progress within clients who take medication and also attend therapy okay so um Amanda what are your primary goals for therapy when you work for these clients and how do you measure your progress so I will just every session that I have I just hope that I make their day better or that we learn one thing in session um and that's my goal and I always do check in with my clients before the session like how are you feeling you know or I even ask them like hey like I noticed that you did this this time like great job right think a lot of times to we don't really reinforce our own self or know our own progress so when someone tells us like hey you're doing a good job like you're like oh wow I am doing good job so giving them that awareness that they're doing well or that they are growing and you know uh developmentally or making progress with their goals like that's you have to kind of like reinforce that and that's why I say reinforcement is very important because that's what motivates the good behavior right the the new pattern of behaviors um so I am very thankful that we have toite notes as therapist it's required by law um and it's ethical so I can either go back to notes from like a previous session but I also have a really good memory and I try to connect with a client individually to really um remember you know what were their struggles especially when they first came in and highlighting okay when we first came in let's say three months ago right I've noticed the this this has changed how do you feel about this change and they'll be like oh I don't know noce it and then sometimes I'll highlight let's say um if there's a challenging situation that comes up or an event then I notice that they're tolerating those challenges better I will point it out for that and this also goes for the family even if it's the non-verbal right right so do you have any specific experience or any success story where you know it it actually works worked out and you see the client yes would you speak it FL would you like a a client that is Vietnamese or a client that is non-s speaking uh anything that I could share yeah anything that you okay um I do have a lot of success stories uh I will talk about one of my clients that I've had for about on and off maybe three years uh Vietnamese family a child um he his behaviors I could describe as destructive he's very aggressive he would hurt himself hurt family members throw Tantrums for about an hour long he actually hit the teachers a couple of times he hits the students he would throw toys so very destructive um and I would seem in my office every week and I would just work on a lot of emotional regulation skills like how to calm down right but sometimes like when you talk to a kid they don't listen so you have to make it very fun so I would use videos I would draw pictures I would make a game out of it and then um after that uh I would always like to play a game of like their preference my my whole office is like a toy Playland like there's always a bunch of toys and so I make them feel comfortable and make therapy fun I think I think it's very important to make therapy fun I think there's a lot of you know perceptions of like therapy is boring it's talking only but to be honest I don't like talking for 45 minutes or an hour all the time right I like to engage them and sometimes I'll do like puppet play or we'll make um we'll do a lot of arts and crafts I think that's really fun to help Express their creativity and then um so like with as one kid I did all of this all of these and I have also provided homework it took a lot of work um and I noticed a lot of children they benefit from having a reward so the reward could be they can go out they can get a toy they can get a certain food they like with their parent right I I think a lot of times you got to think about it we're motivated to earn something just as adults are motivated to earn money right so we have to work yeah yeah so like uh what happened to this client afterwards really well no more reports um my client did when I did work with him he got kicked out of school so um but he's in a new place now he's doing much better making friends communicating more able to go outside and enjoy like museums movie theaters without having temper Outburst so it just takes a lot of fine-tuning and seeing you know what does that client need at that certain time but most of the kids they need a lot they need communication practice they need more play they need a place where they can just feel safe right I think nowadays there's a there's common bullying everywhere in schools so a lot of my kiddos especially they have they have been bullied so giving them self-confidence skills um and just uh having them feel like they are important that that's what really helped my kiddo it's great so you mentioned bully so for these clients since they're already struggling uh a lot with their speech with uh what other people say to them when it comes to going out in the world and feeling like you know people are not able to understand you and people are pulling you that's that's definitely really tough so what is your wise for these parents uh to look after their kids like how would they get their kid to talk that yes I'm feeling this way in my school yeah and you know what it's interesting is I'm trying to understand more too even the one the kids or the children who bully they may be struggling with mental health challenges right so I think it's really important for parents to just check in with their child right say how was your day I think a lot of times we are invested in technology where we don't have quality time and conversations with um family members so really checking in with the kids noticing unusual behaviors right like is my child more isolated or does my child like want to is more quiet um and then I think it's really important too you know I think when they have those parent teacher conferences or those other events where parents have the opportunity to talk to the teacher is just see how's my child doing so oh the par right you mentioned that parents should also be observant at their home what how the child is behaving what is he talking about so and you also mentioned technology since parents are so much into technology these days and uh so much you know like earning money so that their kids can have have a better life but they somehow fail to talk to their kids and get time for themselves get time for kids so what advice do you have for parents so that they can look after the kids yeah so not only do I just provide therapy with the child children I also provide support for the parents I provide a lot of education and support and modeling um and I I always usually have of um what what we call it meetings to talk about okay your child is explained this Behavior I've noticed it's getting worse or something happened how can we work together to try to find a solution right so I think for parents is again being observant is very important like you don't need to be with your child 247 but just try to you know have more quality time when appropriate right like dinner time right engage them in conversation um and maybe reduce some tech time where they're not on their tablet or the phone and having them you know engage in like activities together games right like remember back then we had board games I don't know if it's as popular anymore like I like to use board games in my sessions you know and then kids are like whoa what is this game but there's so many activities out there even going outside right especially during the summer time going to the park getting that fresh air or you know going to the movies just like exping the world around them can really stimulate the children's mind them learn so much especially with socially how to interact especially with Co I think Co also made a huge impact on um children and clients just having uh Troublesome with communication skills so just having more exposure and practicing and modeling you know for the the child or you know the the person that you're caring for and just modeling that the new communication way of like and and just also being accepting too like it's okay to make mistakes I think a lot of times is we put too much emphasis on like having to be perfect and parents should model like it's okay to make mistakes yeah right uh so you mentioned that we should engage the kids in more outdoor activities you can take them out for a movie take them out for in a par but when we talk about uh you know children who are you know say who has some speech trouble or who are any ways aggressive and um or like down syndromes kids so their parents and also the world outside uh do you feel it's not much open for them so that they can experience the same things as uh children of their own age can yes and you mentioned something very important you know I think there's the fear right the fear of being judge the fear of my child being hurt or them hurting others so you have to start slow right this the starting slow is asking for help asking for help getting the support you need therapy does not need to be outside right therapy is now I mean what helps now is telea Health especially with my aggressive clients I mostly do teleah Health with them because I don't want to put myself in danger and I don't want to make sure that they're in more danger when they're on the community so I usually start with telea health and then I you know build that report with them and usually that takes about For Me Maybe six months maybe a little more just to have that report with the client and modeling you know interventions of how to practice safe body communication and then I'll attempt to meet them outside I'll meet them outside my office not even in the office like even in the front of the office just so we have like a safe space where it's not congested um and just like play with them observe with them and take it slow yeah so like we were talking about how can others be more mindful uh that they be more welcoming to clients like this to children like this and you know parents having this fear of fear of judgment or fear that you know somebody will hurt their kid or maybe opposite right so how can we navigate that can we build that trust in parents as well as for these children and make them experience all the things that children of their age can I think there needs to be more awareness of resources I think there needs to be more access to resources it'll help families feel that they're not alone um I know that we have some groups especially in California where parents can come to join to talk about you know these uh their children uh recently I've attended a few events where it was um like not fairs but kind of like fairs where they have booths of resources of services that that was really nice but it's not all the services there's so many services that are unknown and I think what would be really good and I hope one day is if the family has insurance right the children has Insurance either medical which is you know through the government or private pay these insurances should have a lot of resources of where they can go not just a minimum and that's what I'm seeing as a problem there's minimum resources that are accessible and that are known even I am struggling myself to find resources that are out there like we need a yellow book for all these resources right right uh so do you since we know that it's already a lot of Gap with resource where parents can find and more resources to be added by the government for these clients and children uh So currently can you suggest some of the resources that are out there for these parents so um it depends on the situation like uh like I said for myself I used to be a Aba therapist so a therapist working with children with autism that's the more needed one and there's a lot of I guess services out there but it's a I'm not sure about how many companies are out there I think there needs to be like I said a yellow book for all the companies um and access for the clients there needs to be more resources of autism testing right ADHD testing especially for kids because when you get older it's very difficult to obtain that test another one is my my own self right like accessing mental health clinics right to get the diagnosis that is appropriately for their need right when you go to primary care they're not they're not supposed to diagnose you with a mental health they're supposed to refer you to someone who knows it but how many doctors are known out there to provide this especially for low-income families um also I know there's probably you know the struggle with the weight list right so thinking about how common mental health is on the rise right knowing that there's resources it's just going to take time but how much time can someone wait to get the services there's also you know resources for families who are struggling with homelessness right housing domestic violence substance abuse um there's really lgbtq right that's that's really come blowing up more as lgbtq Community but there's just so much out there but we don't know or maybe there's more that's coming but like I said it's it's how do you know all this true yeah and um I think we all have to be very mindful of uh you know the things that are coming and be prepared for it so we can better serve these clients The Government Can better support them true yeah so um Amanda do you have any message for the parents out there who are struggling currently or are still in fear that you know that they can't be much more open about their get to the world and for the help that is out there I want to tell everyone that you're not alone you're you have support just keep advocating I know it can get hard to find the support you need but keep advocating don't let people tell you like they're not going to get better or it's going to it's going to go away like if you know something is not you know usual go ask for help go ask for resources um keep defending your child you're you're GNA you're going to help them a lot in the long run right and don't give up don't give up definitely do not give up yes I think that's a message out there for all the parents who are seeing their children struggling are and are still in question whether they should go for help or they should you know do it themselves so Amanda what is the step to step process right for helping these parents to go out there and seek for help how should they proceed well first check if what insurance they have is it through the government through the county you know through the country or is it private pay go to them first if you have a primary doctor go to the primary doctor I think that's the first step I'm not sure you know how else to access it from there but you have at least one of those you have a doctor or you have insurance and then as for resources if they say they don't know as a primary doctor the doctor should have at least someone you may be bounced around to find you know an actual place that can support but just keep asking and also what's really helpful is research a lot of research you know Google is a wonderful search engine platform where I do use it a lot to find resources in my area even the schools the schools may know too the schools may have information right go to the school counselor go go to the admin office say hey do you have any resource for you know my CH my child who's struggling behaviorally a lot of times I hate to say it but you do have to ask right that that's true yeah and it's a great advice for parents of definely yeah so Amanda you mentioned previously that there are some you know some games and tools that you have in your own office so to make sure that the kids feel comfortable there they engage in such activities so can you suggest some of these to the parents so that they can have something uh of their own in their house and make it a fair environment for their children yes well I also recommend going to your local um grocery not grocery store uh convenience store there's go to the toy section and the game sections there's numerous of them but you can start with the basic ones card games right you can make your own card games Uno is a very popular one um for kids with sensory right if your child has sensory needs there's like sand kinetic sand there's Play-Doh there's um there's like Hungry Hippo very very popular game and there's like marble run right even Legos building Legos big block Legos um but my suggestion is again Google Amazon type in sensory game sensory activities sensory objects right you'll have a lot and games you could just start slow um don't don't do it too much because then you overwhelm the client with trying to learn something all the time you want to make it fun for them also my favorite is art activities drawing drawing painting coloring right even like gluing paper like it's all sensory touch that's right true thank you so much for sharing that um so the next thing that I would really want to know is that are there any misconceptions out there for these children and how do you want to you know burst them for the benit of it I think a lot of times there's misconception especially those who are non-speaking that they don't understand or they can't talk that's the big one they have a brain they can talk but they can't communicate in the way that we want them to explore right I use pictures a lot I use gestures even like a simple hand clapping you can make up your own gestures doesn't have to be sign language and also eye contact is very important if the child's making eye contact with you that means they hear you they understand you pictures right I think for pictures it depends like using like for them the toilet right kids need to go to the toilet so using a picture of your toilet or like even just a drawing of the toilet you can teach them that this is toilet and sign for toilet um so that's one conception I want talk about another one is thinking that they're different yes they're unique but are they really different from other kids they're they are special they they have a heart they have feelings they they can understand a lot and just giving them access to share that experience with you true I think all of the things will cly help the world understand these children better and that's what they really want right to just be understood by their parents by the world out there so Amanda uh to conclude this podcast my last question would be that how do you envision making a difference in lives of uh those clients or those children who are struggling with them in the coming years I love doing what I do I started very young and I want to keep advocating for especially the Vietnamese Community I hope that there's more cultured um students who want to be a therapists and really understand the need for it especially um to help break the stigma with many cultures right Latin Latin um you know Middle Eastern right other Asian ethnicities there's there's a stigma with many cultures and so if I want if I could I just want to keep mentoring people people around me even with casual conversations just talking about mental health I think can help promote an Insight of you know how much of the work is really rewarding and just passing that message along to others so they know that there are people out there that really do care about helping you know people who are struggling right right thank you so much for sharing that um Amanda how can our audience connect with you and stay updated with your work yeah so I actually have an Instagram and it's a therapy tips by Amanda I actually post my own skills and ideas um just to bring awareness of mental health it's not it doesn't mean that it's going to work but I just want to somehow spread messages to help people feel heard and supported thank you so much for doing the work that you're doing for the world out there thank you so much for joining us today we had a really great conversation with you